rlhamil
Apr 21, 06:44 PM
The existence of this data has been known for some time now.
Further, some googling suggests that Apple had already responded to some congressmen's inquiries on the subject, again, well before it got this level of publicity.
From what I've read, they apparently collect locations, WiFi MAC addresses, etc, _anonymously_ (not retaining information that would track any particular person or phone, unless you _choose_ to track a lost or stolen iPhone).
Now...why would they do that? I just thought of one reason.
Geolocation by WiFi MAC address (the only way iPod touch or non-3G iPad can geolocate, if they can't use cell towers and don't include GPS) depends on a database of locations and WiFi MAC addresses. Apple probably has previously used one licensed from Skyhook or Google. I imagine that was built with equipment carried in delivery vans, or in the same vehicles that take Google's "street view" panoramic photos. Licensing access to that database must cost Apple something.
Now...what happens? Somebody says "duh, an iPhone has WiFi and a GPS, that means we've got a fleet of surveying equipment already deployed." Doesn't matter that they can't schedule the coverage; sooner or later, someone is likely to drive near just about every fixed WiFi AP on the planet with an iPhone. Now...the data quality wouldn't be as good...but even whoever did the earlier database must've had that problem (people with mobile access points would confuse the heck out of things, for instance). So maybe it takes multiple hits to confirm something as fixed, or to improve the accuracy. But eventually you still get to the same end result - a WiFi MAC address vs location database that Apple owns free and clear.
They might even be able to do some work with cell tower location data, and perhaps produce data good enough to compete with the existing geolocation database providers. After all, Apple does have to maintain some infrastructure for various functions: their notification servers, software update servers, etc. Anything they can get as a side-effect of the normal operation of iDevices and their infrastructure, that helps pay for it, lets them make a bigger profit and/or be more competitive (remember, for all Apple's rep for high prices, the iPad 2 supposedly is as well or better priced compared to competing devices with similar specs).
The question here probably isn't whether the data is being abused; and raising that question is IMO _pandering_, not surprising for a liberal, who after all must have idiots for constituents, or they wouldn't have been elected. (I mean, really, Heinlein summarized economics concisely with TANSTAAFL, and there _is_ something usually ignored called the Tenth Amendment, which basically says the states can be socialist if they want, but the federal government can't.)
The _real_ question is what safeguards are in effect to minimize the potential for abuse. Ok, we theoretically need a warrant for this sort of thing (although I wouldn't put it past individual states to play fast and loose). But what about foreign governments, already inclined towards police state behavior? What about people _knowing_ what risk they're putting themselves at in case of some civil suit?
IMO, Apple needs to provide and prominently _document_ a way to clear the saved data, and/or document the degree to which disabling location services prevents its retention (let alone anonymous reporting) in the first place. (For jailbreakers, I gather there's already a Cydia app that once installed, will automatically delete data older than a few minutes.) People need to understand that encrypted backups would make the information sync'd back to their Mac or PC safer. And so on.
Generating hysteria is perhaps a useful political tool, for those inclined to address themselves to the least common denominator. But asking the more specific questions which would lead to real answers takes more than PR, it takes a functional brain, or at least the sense to hire a staffer who has one or can consult one.
Further, some googling suggests that Apple had already responded to some congressmen's inquiries on the subject, again, well before it got this level of publicity.
From what I've read, they apparently collect locations, WiFi MAC addresses, etc, _anonymously_ (not retaining information that would track any particular person or phone, unless you _choose_ to track a lost or stolen iPhone).
Now...why would they do that? I just thought of one reason.
Geolocation by WiFi MAC address (the only way iPod touch or non-3G iPad can geolocate, if they can't use cell towers and don't include GPS) depends on a database of locations and WiFi MAC addresses. Apple probably has previously used one licensed from Skyhook or Google. I imagine that was built with equipment carried in delivery vans, or in the same vehicles that take Google's "street view" panoramic photos. Licensing access to that database must cost Apple something.
Now...what happens? Somebody says "duh, an iPhone has WiFi and a GPS, that means we've got a fleet of surveying equipment already deployed." Doesn't matter that they can't schedule the coverage; sooner or later, someone is likely to drive near just about every fixed WiFi AP on the planet with an iPhone. Now...the data quality wouldn't be as good...but even whoever did the earlier database must've had that problem (people with mobile access points would confuse the heck out of things, for instance). So maybe it takes multiple hits to confirm something as fixed, or to improve the accuracy. But eventually you still get to the same end result - a WiFi MAC address vs location database that Apple owns free and clear.
They might even be able to do some work with cell tower location data, and perhaps produce data good enough to compete with the existing geolocation database providers. After all, Apple does have to maintain some infrastructure for various functions: their notification servers, software update servers, etc. Anything they can get as a side-effect of the normal operation of iDevices and their infrastructure, that helps pay for it, lets them make a bigger profit and/or be more competitive (remember, for all Apple's rep for high prices, the iPad 2 supposedly is as well or better priced compared to competing devices with similar specs).
The question here probably isn't whether the data is being abused; and raising that question is IMO _pandering_, not surprising for a liberal, who after all must have idiots for constituents, or they wouldn't have been elected. (I mean, really, Heinlein summarized economics concisely with TANSTAAFL, and there _is_ something usually ignored called the Tenth Amendment, which basically says the states can be socialist if they want, but the federal government can't.)
The _real_ question is what safeguards are in effect to minimize the potential for abuse. Ok, we theoretically need a warrant for this sort of thing (although I wouldn't put it past individual states to play fast and loose). But what about foreign governments, already inclined towards police state behavior? What about people _knowing_ what risk they're putting themselves at in case of some civil suit?
IMO, Apple needs to provide and prominently _document_ a way to clear the saved data, and/or document the degree to which disabling location services prevents its retention (let alone anonymous reporting) in the first place. (For jailbreakers, I gather there's already a Cydia app that once installed, will automatically delete data older than a few minutes.) People need to understand that encrypted backups would make the information sync'd back to their Mac or PC safer. And so on.
Generating hysteria is perhaps a useful political tool, for those inclined to address themselves to the least common denominator. But asking the more specific questions which would lead to real answers takes more than PR, it takes a functional brain, or at least the sense to hire a staffer who has one or can consult one.
ergle2
Aug 27, 07:55 PM
I was under the impression when the Core 2 Duos were released, but I hope very soon because they are a measurable improvement over the GMA950 which isn't as bad as everyone make it out to be.
The benchmarks I've seen suggest that it's in fact slower.
Take a look at http://www.pconline.com.cn/market/sh/shoppingguide/changshang/0608/844892.html
The Inquirer - I know, that bastion of rumor-mongering and unfounded allegation - has been reporting that OEMs are saying "it sucks".
Maybe this will be sorted out in later steppings, but these were awfully recent revsions...
The benchmarks I've seen suggest that it's in fact slower.
Take a look at http://www.pconline.com.cn/market/sh/shoppingguide/changshang/0608/844892.html
The Inquirer - I know, that bastion of rumor-mongering and unfounded allegation - has been reporting that OEMs are saying "it sucks".
Maybe this will be sorted out in later steppings, but these were awfully recent revsions...
RebootD
Apr 12, 10:01 PM
Well they just announced it's on the App Store and in June. Only $299!
relimw
Sep 6, 08:51 AM
Still cant see any sign of MBPs.*weeps*
Maybe next tuesday...
Dude, the MBP was updated in late April of this year, why would you think it'll be updated four and a half months later??
Maybe next tuesday...
Dude, the MBP was updated in late April of this year, why would you think it'll be updated four and a half months later??
macidiot
Jul 19, 04:33 PM
When the "real" machines are out, Vista will be out as well. Unless Leopard has revolutionary improvements, the difference between Windows and OSX+iLife would be much less than that it is today. I would still appreciate the UNIX under the hood, but I doubt most consumers care. If Mac sales or market share starts to come down a bit due to fewer switchers, the share price could easily crash.
Vista vs. Leopard is a moot point. There is enough pent up demand for high end desktops to fuel growth for some time. Switchers aren't material in this market. Besides, desktop buyers aren't waiting for Leopard, they are waiting for universal binaries from Adobe.
Vista will have zero near term effect. The simple truth is that you won't see widespread adoption of Vista for at least 12-18 months. And that is assuming Vista actually ships when it is supposed to. Which is no sure thing.
As for the consumer, what they care about is stability and security. imo, that is what is getting switchers. Your right that they don't care how it's being done. However, Vista will be far more secure than xp when it comes out. At least for a month or so. It will take at least a few weeks for good malware to come out for it...
Vista vs. Leopard is a moot point. There is enough pent up demand for high end desktops to fuel growth for some time. Switchers aren't material in this market. Besides, desktop buyers aren't waiting for Leopard, they are waiting for universal binaries from Adobe.
Vista will have zero near term effect. The simple truth is that you won't see widespread adoption of Vista for at least 12-18 months. And that is assuming Vista actually ships when it is supposed to. Which is no sure thing.
As for the consumer, what they care about is stability and security. imo, that is what is getting switchers. Your right that they don't care how it's being done. However, Vista will be far more secure than xp when it comes out. At least for a month or so. It will take at least a few weeks for good malware to come out for it...
hoveowl
Feb 6, 08:01 AM
Here in the upper midwest, we're having a nasty winter. However in a couple of months it'll be warm enough to get the top down.
Bengt77
Sep 1, 02:15 PM
One more thing... they'll change the name from iMac to Mac, bringing a perfect symmetry to their product line-up:
Mac
Mac Pro
MacBook
MacBook Pro
That would not be a good sign. If the iMac does go Merom, that is. If it goes Conroe, it's fine with me, though...
Mac
Mac Pro
MacBook
MacBook Pro
That would not be a good sign. If the iMac does go Merom, that is. If it goes Conroe, it's fine with me, though...
reel2reel
Apr 12, 10:21 PM
Some definite improvements but I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "jaw-dropper". I was really hoping to see more about how it integrates with the rest of the suite.
Thank Larry Jordan for that "jaw-dropper" remark.
Thank Larry Jordan for that "jaw-dropper" remark.
RaceTripper
Jan 10, 03:57 PM
That's about 700 pounds too much!
;)
...Some day I may work on that problem. Once it's paid for and I have another car as a daily driver, the JCW could become a dedicated track car with a proper rollcage and bucket and all the unnecessary weight evicted.
;)
...Some day I may work on that problem. Once it's paid for and I have another car as a daily driver, the JCW could become a dedicated track car with a proper rollcage and bucket and all the unnecessary weight evicted.
Caris
Feb 20, 02:52 PM
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/4189/p1000762s.jpg
Benjy91
Mar 28, 02:17 AM
Again people saying you couldn't play with a touchscreen device without looking at it have no imagination or understanding. Definately within two years you will be shown to be horribly wrong on this point.
You're sure about that? Considering the next Xbox isn't due for release till about 2015, and the PS4 probably later, and I'm pretty sure those systems will ship with controllers. The Kinect being an optional extra.
And I seriously doubt the iPad will could be seen as a serious competitor to Games Consoles and PC gaming, in the same way my calculator is a competitor to my iPhone because it performs a same function, better than my iPhone does.
You're sure about that? Considering the next Xbox isn't due for release till about 2015, and the PS4 probably later, and I'm pretty sure those systems will ship with controllers. The Kinect being an optional extra.
And I seriously doubt the iPad will could be seen as a serious competitor to Games Consoles and PC gaming, in the same way my calculator is a competitor to my iPhone because it performs a same function, better than my iPhone does.
godrifle
Nov 27, 01:10 PM
It's about time Apple provided Mini buyers with a branded monitor option. :)
twoodcc
Jul 13, 10:42 PM
dang, that would be awesome. i just hope i can buy one and put it in an external enclosure and have my mac be able to use it
Lord Blackadder
Feb 23, 01:21 AM
Anyway, here is my point on the diesel vs. hybrids: After a quick glance around the web, I see the Toyota Prius stats at $23,050 and is rated at 51/48 MPG. The 4 door Golf TDI starts at $23,885 and is rated at 42/30 for the auto. Given the differences in mileage and difference in fuel prices, it is really hard for the average buyer to justify buying a diesel. Yes, I have read all over the internet about people getting insane mileage out of the diesels, but most people are just going to look at the ratings and compare that.
They will, but VW rated its mileage conservatively, because they wanted to make sure their new diesel didn't promise more than it delivered. I think that VW may revise those numbers in the future.
A diesel is still simpler, cheaper and potentially more reliable than a hybrid, and gives better fuel economy than a gasoline-engined car. So there is a definite market there, one that is likely to grow in the near future.
They are exempt from CAFE( since HD's are supposed to be work trucks and all), but they are required to meet the new diesel emissions laws.
True, that's a good point. But my original point was that the "Americans don't want diesels" argument doesn't hold water if people are buying diesel trucks in healthy numbers.
They will, but VW rated its mileage conservatively, because they wanted to make sure their new diesel didn't promise more than it delivered. I think that VW may revise those numbers in the future.
A diesel is still simpler, cheaper and potentially more reliable than a hybrid, and gives better fuel economy than a gasoline-engined car. So there is a definite market there, one that is likely to grow in the near future.
They are exempt from CAFE( since HD's are supposed to be work trucks and all), but they are required to meet the new diesel emissions laws.
True, that's a good point. But my original point was that the "Americans don't want diesels" argument doesn't hold water if people are buying diesel trucks in healthy numbers.
NebulaClash
Sep 15, 09:38 AM
Not all auto recalls are for safety issues. The point is Apple DID NOT FIX the issue with the new iPhone's they are selling, again something automobile manufactures are expected to do regardless of it is a safety issue or not. It doesn't matter how many or few people have the issue, the issue exists and they did not issue a permanent, non-interactive and satisfactory fix for CR's to recommend the product.
I have the issue as the signal in my area from AT&T sucks. I'm fine with using a case as I planned on using one anyway. But if someone in my area wanted an iPhone 4 and does like or want a case, then I wouldn't recommend it to them.
And I would recommend the iPhone 4 to everyone I know, almost all of whom use a case no matter what phone they have.
Let's drop the car analogy, it's causing more trouble than my point is worth. Apple did not fix the issue YET, but they said they would. What would you have them do in the meantime? What would CR have them do? No doubt a product recall which would be silly overkill. Apple's solution is simple, free, and easy.
I have the issue as the signal in my area from AT&T sucks. I'm fine with using a case as I planned on using one anyway. But if someone in my area wanted an iPhone 4 and does like or want a case, then I wouldn't recommend it to them.
And I would recommend the iPhone 4 to everyone I know, almost all of whom use a case no matter what phone they have.
Let's drop the car analogy, it's causing more trouble than my point is worth. Apple did not fix the issue YET, but they said they would. What would you have them do in the meantime? What would CR have them do? No doubt a product recall which would be silly overkill. Apple's solution is simple, free, and easy.
ZebraineZ
Jun 22, 03:37 PM
I wouldn't mind an iOS-type OS on an iMac as long as it had some more features of a full-fledged desktop OS. As in:
-Multiple Users
-Printing
-Some kind of file system
-More apps of a creative side (ie movie editing, word processing, programming, etc.) instead of just media consuming apps
Note: this list is not exhaustive; there are many more features I'd like that I just can't think of at the moment.
Plus, some games/apps will need to be done, specifically those that need the accelerometers. I don't think people would want to swing around a 20/30 pound computer. But that would be a good way to make more money; people keep breaking them so they'll have to pay for repairs/new ones.
I doubt 10.7 will be such an overhaul. Probably more like Mac OS X 11.0 or a totally new naming scheme.
You just described a touchless OS X. It does exactly that...
-Multiple Users
-Printing
-Some kind of file system
-More apps of a creative side (ie movie editing, word processing, programming, etc.) instead of just media consuming apps
Note: this list is not exhaustive; there are many more features I'd like that I just can't think of at the moment.
Plus, some games/apps will need to be done, specifically those that need the accelerometers. I don't think people would want to swing around a 20/30 pound computer. But that would be a good way to make more money; people keep breaking them so they'll have to pay for repairs/new ones.
I doubt 10.7 will be such an overhaul. Probably more like Mac OS X 11.0 or a totally new naming scheme.
You just described a touchless OS X. It does exactly that...
Gasu E.
Nov 28, 08:26 AM
I find you the one that is incorrigible. The 23" inch price is competitive where it is as your link so eloquently points out. The Apple displays are easily worth a 15-20% mark-up. The problem is since the last time the display prices were updated 20" wide-screen panel prices have dropped nearly in half. So a year ago when Apple released this $699 price point it was a good price because competitors were selling the same panels at $599. Now they are at $399 and some times as low a $299. Apple's display is worth extra just not 75% to 100% extra.
I see a lot of scientific analysis went into your response. "Not!"
Go to many suppliers of equipment aimed at professionals, and you will often see professional-quality products priced at 3-5x that the price of consumer-quality products in the same functional category.
I am guessing from your "easily worth a 15-20% mark-up" remark that your experience is limited to high-quality consumer products. Don't confuse a consumer upgrade with a professional alternative. Danny, "you're out of your element."
I think a lot of people on this thread would like to see Apple offer some consumer-targeted alternatives to the current monitors, competitively priced. But that's not the same as buying pro equipment at a consumer price.
I see a lot of scientific analysis went into your response. "Not!"
Go to many suppliers of equipment aimed at professionals, and you will often see professional-quality products priced at 3-5x that the price of consumer-quality products in the same functional category.
I am guessing from your "easily worth a 15-20% mark-up" remark that your experience is limited to high-quality consumer products. Don't confuse a consumer upgrade with a professional alternative. Danny, "you're out of your element."
I think a lot of people on this thread would like to see Apple offer some consumer-targeted alternatives to the current monitors, competitively priced. But that's not the same as buying pro equipment at a consumer price.
swingerofbirch
Aug 24, 06:10 PM
finally a rumor!
after weeks of speculation on the forums, a front page rumor feels fact!
holding my thumbs for a conroe imac! (a swedish expression...i think?)
after weeks of speculation on the forums, a front page rumor feels fact!
holding my thumbs for a conroe imac! (a swedish expression...i think?)
fr4c
Nov 23, 01:29 PM
Oh you are making me hungry...
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_blizzak_lm25_ci2_l.jpg
Tires for the winter
http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bridgestone/bs_blizzak_lm25_ci2_l.jpg
Tires for the winter
Brinkman
Sep 14, 09:49 AM
Antenna gate was blown out of proportion :rolleyes:
It really was a non issue.
However I do enjoy my free case :)
It really was a non issue.
However I do enjoy my free case :)
calderone
Apr 3, 08:40 PM
It should be an option, at least. You can hide the toolbar in windowed mode, so you should be able to in fullscreen; I can't see Apple leaving it in its current implementation.
I can. Full screen is in large part based on the iOS, if that holds true the address bar is staying.
I can. Full screen is in large part based on the iOS, if that holds true the address bar is staying.
zoran
Nov 21, 10:10 AM
This rumor seems to be only a rumor! Its Nov 21st today, when will octos come? Next year i guess... damn it!:mad:
63dot
Nov 25, 01:07 PM
They're just ****ing sunglasses...
That's what I thought, but I have seen some in the $300 to $400 dollar range, more with precious stones (actually, much much more).
These cool ones are $250 to $400 and quite nice, but so not me. I could never get enticed into high end, multi-purpose glasses unless they came bundled with OS X and I could navigate through it using just my mind. :)
That's what I thought, but I have seen some in the $300 to $400 dollar range, more with precious stones (actually, much much more).
These cool ones are $250 to $400 and quite nice, but so not me. I could never get enticed into high end, multi-purpose glasses unless they came bundled with OS X and I could navigate through it using just my mind. :)
twoodcc
Jan 23, 03:44 PM
Our PPD has dropped 20% from the peak, I lost a big unit this week due to a reboot, same old annoying problem...
Can't wait for Gulftown and GPU3...
yeah i've noticed the team has been down. again, i believe the less we chat on this forum, the less members will fold. right now, if one of our top users goes down, our whole team does basically.
i think we need to be more involved on here, and more people will fold.
sorry to hear you lost a big unit. yeah gulftown and gpu3 will be great!
Can't wait for Gulftown and GPU3...
yeah i've noticed the team has been down. again, i believe the less we chat on this forum, the less members will fold. right now, if one of our top users goes down, our whole team does basically.
i think we need to be more involved on here, and more people will fold.
sorry to hear you lost a big unit. yeah gulftown and gpu3 will be great!
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